ISDF, Scion Balance in 1.3

[Red Spot]

And lanchers are easilly countered so wont do that much good vs Rtanks ...
A good ISDF commander will own a good scion commander IF the scion commander cant get the upperhand early game.

And even if you can you still have to keep checking the isdf base to make sure that commander isnt building a fleet of APCs.
I'm not saying that you are screwed as scions, far from it, though 1vs1 will be difficult as scion. Playing TS can be really cool as scions though.

vs Rtanks I simply suggest maulers, just make sure you have some scavs at hand and dont mind using the maulers as 'kamikazi' units.
If an isdf commander does attack with just a single/few Rtanks than I wouldnt be too worried, its the combined attacks that are pretty much unstopable. You cant concentrate on battling Rtanks and Walkers while an army of APCs is going towards your base .....

[Zero Angel]

Guardians also have a very low image signature, you may consider using those to defend against RT's provided you give them some backup.

Yes, but guardians won't do much good if the ISDF has the middle locked down by 2 rocket tanks. It can only prevent them from advancing (if the guardians are aided by humans) further. But by this point, the ISDF has the upper hand if the scions dont yet have blink warriors.

[Red Spot]

Yes, but guardians won't do much good if the ISDF has the middle locked down by 2 rocket tanks. It can only prevent them from advancing (if the guardians are aided by humans) further. But by this point, the ISDF has the upper hand if the scions dont yet have blink warriors.

I know you are a pain in some bodypart when playing scion ...
But that may just be cause you are an excellent dogfighter.

[appel]

In 1.2, a sonic Titan with the shoot-bug is unstoppable, with 10 service trucks.

Piloting one is the ultimate rush, utterly destroying the enemy base and units. It's the ultimate unit.

Ohh... the good ol days.

[Hapi]

ThX for the good tips, as i see there is no good weapon against the rocket tanks.
In scion empty scout there is not enough ammunition, to destroy a scav, so you have to come back again...
Is there any modification to change this? Changing this and a weapon or shield or special against the rocket tank could solve my problem.

[TheJamsh]

If you want, you can select a recycler variant that has cheaper upgraded empty scouts, so they dont cost you so much. Trouble is AI can use empties as well, so it prevents you getting a scout for half the price as it were...

You CAN upgrade them as normal though.

[TwinShadow]

The standard has been set since BZ2 has been released. I think more accurately, 1.2.

It takes time to get used to the Scions. As it has been said, Scions are an offensive race, while the ISDF is an 'all-around' type with good offense and defense.

I'd also like to point out that Gun Spires can work well to defend if you got enough of them around. Just one, eh, good luck with that. 2, not much better. Depends on the map and where the pool is located. I'd also suggest building a jammer near the pool and keep that thing very protected. I'd also like to say that the Arc Blast is actually a bit more powerful than the Arc Cannon. Not by too much, but it is.

Do some practice matches in Instant Action as Scions. If you must, use the cheats for a while and get the hang of them and use the methods that were suggested. Scions have some poor starts, but as soon as you get those 3rd and 4th pools, they will begin to dominate, especially if you can get those extractors upgraded as soon as you can. And keeping scavs around to suck up loose scrap is essential if you want to get some units just a little bit quicker.

And this is coming from a person who hates strat play. XD (I do, I hate commanding in general. I know some things, I just hate doing it XD)

Oh, one last thing, GreenHeart Variant is MPI only last I checked. Actually, a lot of the new variants are really only for MPI as they are imbalanced with each other as it is. You can't select them in ST anyway unless you know console commands.

[Sonic]

I find Gun Spires to be highly accurate compared to their ISDF counter part but the cost of that is low damage to med-high armored units. I usually tried to get at least 1 spire up in my base to stop scout rushes back in the day because they ate scouts for breakfast.

For heavy units, I tend to send Maulers out to eat away at their armor. I would see how multiple Rocket Tanks though with Hornet could defend well against this. One simple thought though for rocket tanks with hornet; if you send in a few maulers and than rush in with a scout and position a solar flare near the line of fire, you may be able to divert a few of those things to allow your maulers to finish breakfast.

Other than that, I agree with the Lancer Strategy.

[Red Spot]

You can use the Commando version Recy in TS, which is basicly a slightly altered Greenheart Recy. At least you could in ta5. I know as I played in some game using it .... and it sucked. Heavy Sabres and such have no place in TS imo ....

[Zero Angel]

ThX for the good tips, as i see there is no good weapon against the rocket tanks.
In scion empty scout there is not enough ammunition, to destroy a scav, so you have to come back again...
Is there any modification to change this? Changing this and a weapon or shield or special against the rocket tank could solve my problem.

Scions have a hard time until they hit quill (or sonic), these are the earliest other weapons available and you should focus on teching to them as quickly as possible.

[Avatar]

I love Sonic...  in a Scout.  Fast, nimble, able to eat or escape from Mortarbikes or Rocket Tanks one on one...  nothing to fear from Asstanks as you toss them off the map or better yet, into the nearest ocean. 

Find a slight bump and launch your Builder over hills and trees to have him where you want him in seconds.  Toss him over to an enemy Extractor and just recycle it...  no nasty beeping to alert the enemy and you're gone again a few seconds later... on to the next one.

The MPI idea is the best, fire up an easy level Scion vs ISDF MPI and you and your friends go and experiment.  Concentrate on quickly grabbing all pools, all the loose, and getting a full base up before you even think about building Titans or Gunspires.

I've found that when people come to the forum and complain that something's impossible it just means they haven't tried anything other than their usual play style.  When it happens to me I sit back and think "OK, I'm a camper and usually make a huge base.  This isn't working so I'll try being very Offensive instead."   I then switch from building GT's to building turrets and tanks...  and most of the time it works...

.         THINK
THINK THEBOX THINK
.         THINK

-Av-

[DarkFox]

I''m stunned at the amount of misinformation in this thread...
Hapi - do you play online much? It might be fun to play a few 1v1 or 2v2 games together with me to get a feel for where you're going wrong with scions.
Oh, and they *are* a little underpowered, but it only becomes an issue if teams are already perfectly matched, and at the top of their game.

[Hapi]

i play almost everyday some help would be good.

[VoodooChile]

Try building just a upgraded factory and a stronghold, it allows you to make warriors with blink and absorption.
It's better when they also have better weapons like quill but just having blink is a major advantage.
If you make sure you always have enough ammo left to blink out, you can be in that 1 ship for the rest of the game. (hit and run)
That way you can use all your scrap to upgrade to better weapons and powerful units instead of buying new ships all game.
I only tried it a few times since i dont play as scion often but it seemed to work. (in 1.3)

[sidesman]

I tried focusing on blink, but a non-upgraded warrior is weaker than a chaingunned scout. The main problem, that chaingun is soon avaliable and very strong.
Scion empty scout should be avaliable with shield as well. Sonic cannon should be available sooner, with stronghold for etc, and why does stronghold need an upgraded Kiln?
Until scions doesn't reach upgraded antenna, they are useless.

Quill should be available even sooner, since its even weaker than chain gun.

Archer should come sooner with heavy armor, and with popper it could function as an effective turret. (like rocket tank)
Anyway, whats the point of resin? It should be a cannon, not a mortar!

In insane variant there are many useful weapon for scions:

- lancer's single lock in combat mode should be as quick as in assault mode. In assault mode it's effective against rocket tanks.

-Mauler with lightning is great fighting force, and has the chance to protect itself. Since mauler armor is weaker now, its has become a suicide unit. It's movement should be even... I dontknow, but mauler should have the ability to destroy a gun tower, than run away.  Its should be able to strafe or jump... whatever.

 Rocket tower is desirable as well -however it's useless against phantom vir -, because gun spire is useless against heavy units. Or gun spire could be upgradeable against heavy units with thermal missile, or assault arc...