Barracks - Pilots and APC's | Bug or Intent?

[TheWall]

I cannot remember the exact posting, but I recall something about pilots in this patch being addressed.

Barracks allegedly enable access to 5 pilots. Yet 10+ (10 + player = 11) APC's can load/reload and deploy endless pilots from a single barracks in multiples of 55!

Something about APC's is amiss.

#1 - Basic math regarding pilots. They take, use and deploy 5 pilots.... FROM WHERE? Why shouldn't an APC's pilot usage be levied against "PILOTS"? Perhaps building an APC should take less scrap, and 5 pilots.

#2 - Countermeasure. While there is reasonable countermeasure against the APC itself, there really is no effective AI v AI countermeasure against the pilots (requiring the PLAYER to be at the point of an APC pilot attack, with a mortar, is not a reasonable/effective AI defense). Nothing reasonably or effectively targets APC pilot swarms, not when a player has the capacity of deploying swarms at 55 pilots (offensive units) per swat. At present, a base defense cannot reasonably target 5 pilots let alone wave upon wave of 55 pilots at a time.

ONE BARRACKS that houses 5 pilots, cannot be the source of 5 pilots for 5 tanks, AND act as an endless supply for vast swarms of pilots for APC's. The "MATH" does not work.

[Blunt Force Trauma]

ONE BARRACKS that houses 5 pilots, cannot be the source of 5 pilots for 5 tanks, AND act as an endless supply for vast swarms of pilots for APC's. The "MATH" does not work.

Scrap can't make a human?
Say it ain't so Joe!

[Ultraken]

It's pure gameplay.  Realism need not apply. 

(The Soldiers in the APC aren't pilots, so they don't count against the pilot count.)

[eddywright]

Suspension of disbelief...

This falls into the Mod category:

Wall has  a point about defense against pilots. AI ignores them even when they are attacking. Why not defend against the attack? AI does not ignore a player pilot...

Eddy

[Firestorm29]

Ya know, this was the first question I had actually asked Ken which led to quite an e-mail chain (I really need to respond to ya, I'll do it tonight, promise).

Ken said that the game handles those soldiers the same as pilots, which it seems like the AI won't fire on them. I think the way it should be handled is if a pilot opens fire, it should be open season. It'd also over soldiers and make them not immune towards AI units.

[bb1]

Sounds good to me. I think even BZ purists would agree on this one...

[ssuser]

APC Soldiers are big dumb guys with machine guns - they don't fly tanks and they hang out just about anywhere, preferably in the cafeteria. So, they do NOT count the same as pilots. Pilots are highly skilled masters of hovercraft warfare and every one you lose hurts - thus they get their own barracks and are kept track of.

Ultraken, were you guys aware that in single player the player gets a free 5 pilots if he leaves an empty tank by a barracks and walks away? A pilot will jump out and Presto! the pilot count is up by 5. This is kind of an exploit in single player as you can just leave an empty tank by a barracks and snipe your own pilots as they come out - you'll max your pilot count in no time without spending any more scrap.

[Firestorm29]

APC Soldiers are big dumb guys with machine guns - they don't fly tanks and they hang out just about anywhere, preferably in the cafeteria. So, they do NOT count the same as pilots. Pilots are highly skilled masters of hovercraft warfare and every one you lose hurts - thus they get their own barracks and are kept track of.

Ultraken, were you guys aware that in single player the player gets a free 5 pilots if he leaves an empty tank by a barracks and walks away? A pilot will jump out and Presto! the pilot count is up by 5. This is kind of an exploit in single player as you can just leave an empty tank by a barracks and snipe your own pilots as they come out - you'll max your pilot count in no time without spending any more scrap.

BZ1 already discussed this and I think it was fixed awhile back.

[Ultraken]

Yup, the +5 pilots bug got straightened out a while back.  For a while I had the pilots hopping out cost a pilot, but that led to an exploit: park an empty craft near an opponent's barracks and kill each pilot that comes out, draining their pilot reserve.  The solution was to make those pilots free, even if it doesn't make logical sense.

(In general, anything that costs permanent resources should require player intervention.  If I were doing it over again, I'd give the barracks a reticule command so the player could tell a pilot to hop out.)

[bb1]

That sounds really cool, since I have had instances where the barracks didn't detect the empty ship. This happens in net games after a while of stagnation.

[ssuser]

Yup, the +5 pilots bug got straightened out a while back. 

That's good to know. I wish there were a better way to model getting reinforcements than just building barracks though, seems odd that 5 men should wink into existence when I build an empty building out of biometal. More "suspension of disbelief" required.
As far as active barracks go, It would also be neat if some enemy soldiers might pile out of enemy buildings here and there on a random basis and shoot up your tank.

[eddywright]

As far as active barracks go, It would also be neat if some enemy soldiers might pile out of enemy buildings here and there on a random basis and shoot up your tank.

Sounds like an idea to add to the Mod list.  Soldiers, like in the APC, but defensive. Might give you a reason to leave the barracks instead of recycling them.

Eddy

[TheWall]

Sounds like an idea to add to the Mod list.  Soldiers, like in the APC, but defensive. Might give you a reason to leave the barracks instead of recycling them.

Eddy

Perhaps that would be the appropriate Countermeasure to an APC attack... 2-3 Barracks in base, where the pilots would deploy in defense against pilots.

[Ultraken]

I think the original idea was for Barracks to work like Farms in the Warcraft games, serving as a population cap.  It obviously changed quite a bit along the way... 

[bb1]

Sounds like an idea to add to the Mod list.  Soldiers, like in the APC, but defensive. Might give you a reason to leave the barracks instead of recycling them.

Eddy

Have you ever played Biohazard battlezone? One thing you could build was the American Outpost, which had the model of a cafeteria but would deploy soldiers to walk out and defend itself from surrounding threats.

With flash cannons.

The only problem was the impending army of 20 soldiers returning to the recycler...